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Vote Ban?
July 8, 2017
12:52 pm
Digital Beast
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Hi there.
So since I came back I noticed that some people like to hunt for heads and for other reasons.
What I also notice is that the whole community dislikes certain people, who are pushing it to the limits of what they can do and can't do, and the community can do nothing about it, and just have to live with these people who destroy the fun in the game.

Hereby I ask for a voting option to put limitations on people, (Like mute, locked PvE, Ban)

I think that 10-15 votes against a person should suffice for putting a penalty on the person that is voted for.
This will give the Community some power.

I think a server should Grow to support the community and I know that is difficult...

Also, it should not be in-game votes but rather something on the forum, and a vote should only last for a few days. - but a link in /motd to a forum with votes would be nice?

Just an idea to get rid of the trolls that mess up the entire community but is protected by the non-flexible rules.

- Digi

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

July 8, 2017
1:01 pm
Sunsprint
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I quite agree with this suggestion. There are a few players here and there who just terrorize the whole server, making it hard for newbies to like the server, and old players to quit, even.

lol hi

July 8, 2017
4:32 pm
[Mod] The_Marauder
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This proposal would actually result in far more staff time dedicated to dealing with 'penalty appeals' where people are banned, muted, or PVE locked for note breaking any rules. Its also open to abuse by trolls.

If you think there is an issue with the rules point out where. We can look at fixing the rules if there are issues.

Examples of how this proposal could be abused:
1) If 10-15 trolls join the server and vote to mute or ban you that's ok? (its happened before where a troll with multiple accounts tries to disrupt the server)
2) If you like to PVP on a PVP server and enough people vote to ban you despite not breaking the rules that's ok?
3) If you get in a disagreement with another player and they agree to pay others to vote you off the server that's ok?

July 8, 2017
7:19 pm
Digital Beast
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Let me be honest, I'd anytime take one for the team and be voted out straight away to get something like this implemented.
There's no power for the community (the peaceful one) to stop players who only want to hunt for their own sadistic feel good, from killing them.
I'm especially worried about the new players who join and nearly as instant as their newbie protection wears off gets beheaded a few dozen times until all the hunters had the head for their collection.

I agree in its a PVP server but calling the PVP on this server PVP? I find that a joke.
People in diamond gear, g-apples, and whatnot to fight newbies who just got around to get a feel about the place. it scares them off, I see it happening over and over, and if we want the community to become somewhat bigger than we are, my guess we need to do something about this...

Now take my example. I'm pretty sure something like it works perfectly if the right choices are made about it. I am no staff I cannot tell what to do and what no to do, but I want to give more power to the community, as I think the server should care more about that community, than the stone hard "WE ARE A PVP SERVER DEAL WITH IT" kinda feel it has.

Allowing the players to join forces against what we feel is harassment would be so nice...

When trying to point out issues in the rules I just realize they are too pinpointed at one specific thing, and if something similar happens, but does not break what is pinpointed in that rule, nothing will happen. The rules simply don't cover enough, and what they cover is not at all flexible enough, as people may end up breaking a rule in self-defence and the offending person may go by unnoticed.

Sometimes it feels that hunters go way too far in what's allowed but they are still protected because they didn't break some weird rule... The number one rule should always be sorry for language "Don't Be a Dick to others" that rule covers som many different aspects you cannot pinpoint unless you want something like every law in a country... That would also give some space for the staff to give his / her opinion on the case and put his/her heart into the case, which I feel they cannot as it is now. The drama as it is now is getting worse and worse, and should, in my opinion, be avoided at any cost.

I only rant this much because I really care about this server and I see something that many dislikes, and actually have an idea of solving it.. Take my idea, twist it to your needs so it will work, or bin it if you want, but the issue is there, and I cannot just sit watch it.

What I think of this:

Examples of how this proposal could be abused:
1) If 10-15 trolls join the server and vote to mute or ban you that's ok? (it's happened before where a troll with multiple accounts tries to disrupt the server)
- You missed that I said it was on the forum the votes should be. You can easily tell the age of an account on the forum, and if its a troll doing so, the chances are low.

2) If you like to PVP on a PVP server and enough people vote to ban you despite not breaking the rules that are ok?
- If you aren't a complete idiot about how you PvP no-one would vote against you.

3) If you get into a disagreement with another player and they agree to pay others to vote you off the server that's ok
- If a player has paid a bunch of people to vote against a person, of course, there should be a penalty.

I can agree on there are flaws in this, but I find this a good solution to the current issue there is.
Let's say we cannot vote for Bans, but lock to PVE and Mute,
The person who is voted against is still able to play the server. But within limits voted for by the community. These can then be time limited to a week or just a few days, as fair warnings.
If votes on the same player happens a few times, let's say 3 times. staff looks thru the 2 earlier votes. if all 3 are the same reason the staff can then make a decision to do a longer temporary punishment or make it a permanent punishment.

"This proposal would actually result in far more staff time dedicated to dealing with 'penalty appeals' where people are banned, muted, or PVE locked for note breaking any rules"
Better a bit more time dealing with this than spawning random animals in people's places, and kicking people for saying jokes. - No offense but seriously.

- Digi

Edit: Corrected with Grammarly

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

July 9, 2017
8:44 am
Famboje
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i can see it can be a problem with it, when you explain it as you do Marauder. But seriously what about having staff on when needed. once a week is just not enough for all the trolls there is on in the early hours in europe timezone (GMT+1). So if we can't have a plugin or any other vote for kick/ban. We really need staff to be more active on the server then.I won't tell you guys how you guys runs the server but i will give my opinion on it. Because i play on the server on a daily basis along side the other regular people who complain about people trash talking them and being trolls. Confused ps i really, really want pvp disabled in claims so they are safe to be in agian. like all the other worlds had

-FamBoje

July 9, 2017
9:55 am
Digital Beast
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Just adding in more for my idea - to make it match what I'm thinking.

The hardest part really is to translate and still be accurate about what I mean about my ideas.
I'm aware nothing is absolutely bulletproof in this, but I have an idea that with the right settings it will benefit the server.

To bring down a number of Penalty Votes, let's say it needs 3 persons to activate a Vote?
If only 1 person is annoyed by another he alone cannot start a Vote for a penalty, but needs backup from 2 others at least?
That way at least 3 has agreed something needs to be done about a person, and now there's a vote allowing more persons to give their opinion too.
If the vote has been open for a couple of days and not enough people have voted for a penalty it should be removed,
but saved in a log, so a full report on a person is available if he repeatedly ends in the voting system.
This allows for staff to look at earlier incidents and is better able to get an idea of the person.

If enough persons vote for an action towards a player it should never be permanent, and we should not be able to ban.
But temporary locking people in PVE or a mute, for a couple of days, maximum a week, sounds about fine to me.
If 3 votes end in an active penalty the server staff should then be able to look into whether or not a player should be
permanently punished in a suiting way, in comparison to what the votes were about.

- Digi

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

July 9, 2017
12:50 pm
[Mod] The_Marauder
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@Digital_Beast
I can appreciate that you're trying to find solutions to an issue. I think our starting point should be to identify the rules that are being abused. For instance: Is this because you think the definition of 'harassment' is too limited? If so, what would you change about it? Is this because people; attack new players? What added protections would you like to see given to new players?

Once you've clearly identified what you feel are gaps in the rules then we can have a conversation about whether or not a temporary mute or pve vote (forum or plugin) is a good approach.

July 9, 2017
12:57 pm
[Mod] The_Marauder
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@Famboje
PVP is disabled in claims by default. you can toggle it on if you'd like (/claimpvp). However, if you have been combat tagged and run into a claim, your attacker can follow you and kill you (unless the combat tag wears off).

If someone is stalking your claim you can also use /da playername (ie. /da The_Marauder) which will give them a 30 second 'get out of here' warning. when you do it a second time they are instantly killed if they are still in the area

July 9, 2017
5:05 pm
Digital Beast
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You should have been there. you left 3 mins before the party started.

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

July 9, 2017
5:11 pm
Famboje
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i know all that Marauder. But visiting someone elses claim and get killed in a claimed area sucks. havent happen to me yet, but it has to others."scams" Confused

July 10, 2017
1:44 am
Dr. Pupper
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Adding the ability to vote ban, or vote any form of punishment wouldn't be beneficial. It appears to me that the least liked players are the PvPers, obviously one being me. Despite not breaking any rules and dismantling any claims of breaking them, most notably "harassment", I am still hated. Sure it's frustrating to die, but it is expected on this server where PvP is enabled outside of claims and a livemap is displaying players' positions constantly. The ability to vote punishment upon a player would only incite circles of friends threatening to punish those that commit actions against said circles of friends.

I do however agree that the rules need to be less vague. More specifically, harassment. I've read that in one day, you can kill a player up to 5 times unless beheaded, and a player can only be beheaded once. Additionally, a player *shouldn't* hunt out another player if he/she already has their head, but I believe we are allowed to (which makes sense). I believe specifying when a player can hunt another player again would reduce confusion. In my opinion, a day should be the amount of time before the limit is reset, unless hunting one person persists daily for 4 or more days in a row.

July 10, 2017
9:07 am
Digital Beast
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Dr. Pupper said
It appears to me that the least liked players are the PvPers, obviously, one being me.  

Did you figure That out? 😮 Amazing.

I can name 3 persons, that if removed from the server would allow for a super nice community to settle. I doubt it will happen with those 3 guys around.

I also think when you piss off the entire community YOU'RE the one whos wrong, not the ENTIRE community... Just saying...
it may be that the faulty rules allow for it, but read the crowd. They don't like it, stop it?

Killing Dynamic like 3 times a week should be considered Harassment, and I would like to point that out @Marauder!
The rules should be less pinpointed on what harassment is, allow for more space to tell what harassment is, seen with the offended player's eyes.
Since the staff does not cover the server at all times you cannot use those rules, since you can't tell the context of harassment to e.g kills a week ago etc.
Also, I think there should be a rule that if you piss the entire community off, something should be done about the player causing the issue...

I do know its a PvP server, but what you're doing is Assault / blackmailing / Harassment seen from my point of view.
Also, you run off like a dog when you meet just the slightest resistance so telling me you're an honest or good PvP'er I cannot believe. You go for easy kills, where players step 1 block out of a claim and then assault the unwary prey... Heh, saying that is PVP, Hell no it isn't... It's Assault.

Guys like you care nothing for the community and if you could destroy it, that would be an achievement...
If it's not to destroy the Community then what is it you try to achieve?
If it was becoming the biggest ********* on the server you can take the medal with you now, you earned it.

Allow me to Quote EvilOmen who in my eyes is a respectable Head Collector:

Evil said in another post:
i would like to say something on this. at this point i think i have the most heads. (no not bragging) the reason im saying this is, i think ive only had a 2 actually mad at me. i always give the stuff back. i just want the heads. the issue isnt head hunting. i love being able to do this and get something out of it.
the problem is that people keep others gear and items. then they are rude about not giving the stuff back. i want this server to grow. its better when more people are on. we have a few people that are killing the server. they drive off all the new players by doing this.
i would like if when you kill someone only the head drops. that would solve all the problems everyone has. the people that like pvp will still be able to hunt, and the people that dont like it wont have to worry about losing all the stuff they have worked for.
Grabbed from here: https://minecraft.dk/forum/report-a-player/gobot/

(You got my vote for a PVE Lock Pupper)
-Digi

Edit: Removed cuss

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

July 10, 2017
4:11 pm
Thaddeuss24
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As much as i hate pupper, hes gotten i think 3 god sets out of me now, refuses to return anything , keeps sneaking up on me while im invisi stalking someone... and ofcourse likes to taunt his kills afterwards....

You have to give it to him... he is pretty resourceful and has some pretty advanced hunting and stalking tactics... the guy is just really good at pvp can we hate him for it and live in fear any time hes online sure we can ! is he techinically breaking any rules no... should he be punished just because hes good at killing and people dont like him .... No
Its quite the predicament...
im the first to admit i kill everyone i can regardless pro or newb... sometimes i give stuff back sometimes i dont ...all i really want is your head anything else is bonus, and it generally depends on the victims demeanour towards me afterwards, The stalking and hunting is half the fun on here and i think its working great as it is!

Lastly i will say, When i cam back from my 1 year hiatus a month or 2 ago and rejoined as a newb i was beheaded by 3 different people in the first day while just trying to get my base and claim up and going.it was very discouraging and i did rage quite multiple times that night... now as a long time player on here i kept logging back in... most newbs wouldnt.... the saving grace was all 3 were very nice to make a chest and leave all or most of my stuff for me in it for when i logged back on.. think they felt bad... luckily for me pupper wasnt on that night... lol

i think at the least the newb protection needs to be extended to more then the few hours it is right now ... maybe 10 or 24 online hours... with the option to remove protection as it is now...

July 10, 2017
4:14 pm
Thaddeuss24
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just noticed and had to comment ... everyone commenting joined in 2013... all old timers...accept marauder the only mod type in this post and hes the newbest hehehe :")

July 10, 2017
4:44 pm
Digital Beast
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Digital Beast said
I also think when you piss off the entire community YOU'RE the one who's wrong, not the ENTIRE community... Just saying...
it may be that the faulty rules allow for it, but read the crowd. They don't like it, stop it?
 

I can only say I'm in this because I am interested in the community grows.
I was also beheaded a few times within the first couple of hours gameplay, even while I was at the edge of the world - Thanks, Feykraag.

I worked for a couple of days, for Matthew_San where tools were my payment, Which I lost to Gobot..
Started from scratch, tho with a helping hand From NippleDiddy.

All the people who make the server an enjoyable place to be, complain about it, and... Well, forget it...

I Donate very often because I like the server. I just feel that when 80% of the player base asks for a break, give them a break.
It's not just Pupper, It's everyone.

Give it a chance, don't scare people off.
2 tired for this...

-Digi

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

July 10, 2017
6:32 pm
[Admin] 10becja
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Chiming in to add a couple updates on some of the things we're going to try out

Number 1)
I'm going to look into changing the newbie protection from real time to play time. Currently it's set that they get 24 hours protection when they join, however since that's real world time, they may only get their first join protected if they don't join again for a day or so. Having it be play time should help protect them while they are getting set up.

Number 2)
I'm going to modify the livemap to make claims show whether they are PVP enabled or not. I was given a suggestion that we should disable TP into claims with PVP to prevent "scams", but that would just cause trouble of other sorts, so making that visible on livemap is the best alternative

Number 3)
I'm going to look into making it impossible to PVP while invisible. Up to this point, if you wanted to avoid people you just moved really far away because it wasn't worth the effort to travel out. However now with elytra, players can sneak up to anyone on the map, swoop in and kill them really quick. My hope is that this should mitigate that somewhat, by forcing them to hide until their potion wears out (or they drink milk), then they would have a buffer (currently thinking 15 seconds) before they could PVP. This should greatly even the playing field for the victims by giving them a small window of opportunity to get away if they see someone appear out of no where. That, coupled with all the other tools available, should give players enough help to avoid getting killed.

As for the vote ban/mute/pve thing, I'm not going to do that. As previously mentioned, it would cause more problems than it would fix with people abusing it. The ultimate goal is to reduce the need for staff involvement, not increase it.

Regarding the "vagueness" of the rules, that's rather intentional. It's almost impossible to have a rule for every scenario, and if we did, I'd have to hire a legal team to try and close all the loop holes. The rules are generally broad enough that they cover most cases, and the rest of the cases we play by ear. Now, I don't mean to say here that the rules are perfect. I'm more than willing to update them if someone has a good idea on how to make the rules more fair to all players. However, what I will ignore is stuff like "this rules don't work, change them" without giving any suggestions. That's just unhelpful.

Finally, remember that this IS a pvp server, so there is every likelihood that you will die by someone. It's not a "pvp is an option if you choose to do so" server, it's enabled everywhere, so if you are outside of a claim you HAVE to be careful. While I'm not a huge fan of people who constantly head hunt and are mean about it, I haven't seen very many cases where what they are doing actually constitutes as harassment. There have been a few cases, and those have been dealt with (and those cases are documented in various reports). If I removed that ability or started penalizing players for head hunting, there would be another post just like this one that would show up for the opposite camp about not being able to pvp (again, this has happened and is documented in the forums).

I'm not trying to squash ideas or stop this conversation, I just need you guys to understand that I have to try and please the most people I can. Let me know what you guys think of the ideas listed above that the other staff and I have come up with to help even the playing field, and if any one else has other suggestions, please share!

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July 10, 2017
10:37 pm
RatedxPG
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[Admin] 10becja said
Number 1)
I'm going to look into changing the newbie protection from real time to play time. Currently it's set that they get 24 hours protection when they join, however since that's real world time, they may only get their first join protected if they don't join again for a day or so. Having it be play time should help protect them while they are getting set up.
 

I feel 24 hrs of game time might be a bit too long. Players that can only play a few hrs a day will have to wait days until they can can hunt or be hunted (unless they remove pvp protection prior). Although yes many players will start off building a house or farms, some players may not want to spend hours of their time doing solely that and prefer adventure and excitement, and although many may not like pvp it deffinentaly spices up the server whether you are a part of the pvp or not.

Side note, I feel there should be a cap, say EITHER 12 hrs of in game time or one week passes, whichever comes first. Some people may use Alts or friends to log on only to do dangerous tasks without fearing others (say killing the ender dragon during which they would be pvp protected), which brings me to the second point, I feel this protection should not have an effect in the end or nether, if you are willing to go there expect danger.

Pvp is one of the things that makes the server fun for me, whether it's me hunting, or being the hunted so I feel 12 hrs or less would seem more reasonable

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July 11, 2017
9:25 am
Digital Beast
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@Becja

Sounds good that something is about to be done, Knowing this I disarm my artillery and wait for the best,
About the rules, and their vagueness I still think they're too specific about especially how harassment works.

Example Given:

The rules Say:
Harassment is killing a player around their own claim when it is not wanted more than 5 times, or the player loses their head, whichever happens first.

Grabbed here: https://minecraft.dk/rules/

This example is what the Attackers usually go by, so if it was possible to kill 4.9 times its what they would do.
Removing such examples, and just overall play it by ear, as you said, would work better I guess.
Allow me to grab another quote, where this may have caused some confusion and altogether a bad experience for yet another that seemed to enjoy the server.:

The Post Said:
Not sure about his understanding of the rules. Once i killed him for his head I left and didn't kill him anymore which does not break any rules.
He stated "(Rules state that if he tries kills around the claim multiple times)" which is not true. Rules state that if KILL you multiple times its harassment. Not "tries".
Also, your 2nd point is incorrect as well. The rule states:
"Harassment is killing a player around their own claim when it is not wanted more than 5 times, or the player loses their head, whichever happens first."
I believe your understanding of this rule is incorrect overall. It means that once a player kills another player AGAIN after those two conditions have been met then it is considered harassment. The conditions being 5 kills or a beheading, whichever happens first.
The only reason I'm posting here is because when I hunt, I never break the rules of harassment. I know them well and follow them, leaving once I grab the head, and sometimes loot.
Thanks for reading.

Grabbed here: https://minecraft.dk/forum/report-a-player/gobot-killing/

I think that with no examples given, it's up for the players and staff to Feel when it was harassment.
Since there's a difference in what people have, do and what they feel about it, I think examples like the one quoted above confuses both the Attacker and the Victim.

This will be my last post in this topic since it's been answered from the man himself. Unless something needs clarification 🙂

- Digi

Edit: Eliminated Typos, with earlier mentioned artillery

Someone once typed in something clever here, what a shame that was my idea...

August 12, 2017
1:37 am
S3conds
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Actually I believe this is a good idea. It has flaws but I believe they can be easily fixed. I think there are some players on the server that are really like jerks and trick people and then kill them, (Mentioning No Names) I feel like some players that just prevent newer players from trying to play the game regularly, and just killing everyone and making people mad. We could make a IP sort of system where you could only vote once depending on your IP, like how the vote system works.

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